Cover-up and contamination theories

While the days, weeks and months pass, the scientific community continues to work on what isn’t, instead of what is. The question of how a lab contaminant produces an immune response in patients hasn’t been addressed by any of the contamination theorists. And how do you manage to contaminate the patients’ samples at a higher rate than the controls when all samples were blinded and run at the same time? In fact, it is the patients that are contaminated with a family of MLV-related retroviruses, not Dr. Mikovits’ lab.

This abstract was presented at CROI a few days ago:
XMRV Probably Originated through Recombination between 2 Endogenous Murine Retroviruses during in vivo Passage of a Human Prostate Cancer Xenograft. Paprotka
Many questions arise without the full paper, but it seems that far from showing XMRV to be a lab contaminant, the study shows what may in fact have happened. Endogenous retroviruses recombined in or infected human tumor cells through subsequent passages in vivo (in mouse) to produce a fully replicative xenotropic exogenous retrovirus, that in fact may prove to be the most infectious human retrovirus yet. In animals, similar viruses are communicated casually. Lombardi et al demonstrated that this new human retrovirus is circulating in the blood of as many as 10 million Americans. A public relations nightmare. So what did the scientists who said this was impossible do? First they denied its existence, then tried to suggest results were the result of mouse parts in their reagents, but none of the arguments have in any way refuted the data of Lombardi et al or Lo et al, who rigorously ruled out contamination. What they have shown is that it is possible to produce XMRV in a lab. Like the murine retroviruses, recombination events produce new pathogenic variants. See my post from September 10 about Sandra Ruscetti’s work: Lessons from the murine retroviruses

As for the 22Rv1 cell line being the source of XMRV contamination responsible for the whole mistaken affair, none of the labs involved in the Science paper Lombardi et al, have ever used this cell line. They couldn’t have contaminated subjects’ blood with virus produced by a cell line which all three investigators at different institutions can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt never entered their laboratories (personal communication). Sillier still, is the idea that this supposedly singular event was the source of infection, since it has only been around since the late ’90s: A new human prostate carcinoma cell line, 22Rv1. Sramkoski

My guess is that passing lots of human tissue through mice and then culturing in the laboratory for now more than four decades produced the conditions to enable a very unlikely event- by giving it many chances to occur. A probable place for this to have happened was in the creation of live attenuated virus vaccines where virus is made less virulent with multiple passes through animal cells in tissue culture. The earliest live polio vaccine was made by Hilary Koprowski using Swiss albino mouse brain cells. The first dose was administered to a child in 1950. He also used monkey kidney cells which were implicated in passing SV40 to humans. Albert Sabin’s live polio vaccine was produced from attenutated virus obtained from Koprowski.

Mouse cells and the cells of other species have also been used over the years in the creation of other vaccines. Some vaccines, including attenuated Measles and Mumps in the MMR, are grown on duck and chick embryo cells. Domestic fowl have endogenous retroviruses, avian leukosis viruses (ALVs or ASLVs), that do very similar things to the gammaretroviruses. Recombination events are involved in pathogenicity and they can infect the cells of other species in tissue culture. XMRV requires the XPR1 receptor to infect cells. The XPR1 receptor is ubiquitous in mammalian cells. Lab mice are resistant by virtue of XPR1 polymorphisms. The alpha retroviruses use a receptor called TVB. TVB is a tumor necrosis factor receptor that is most likely the avian homolog of a TRAIL (TNF-related apoptosis-inducing ligands) receptor. Here is a paper about the receptor: A Fifteen-Amino-Acid TVB Peptide Serves as a Minimal Soluble Receptor for Subgroup B Avian Leukosis and Sarcoma Viruses. Knauss. The abstract contains the following sentence: “This peptide was sufficient not only for binding to ASLV-B but also for activating viral entry into mammalian cells that lacked the cognate viral receptor.”

Here are two recent papers that should be giving someone pause, but there is no evidence that anything is changing in the status quo at the CDC. Head in the sand or worse?

Beta retroviruses, e.g. mouse mammary tumor virus (MMTV), may also be present in tissue culture of murine cells. The first PubMed paper seems to have been published in 1948 when the “milk factor” was first identified on electron microscopy in tumor prone mice:
A particulate body associated with epithelial cells cultured from mammary carcinomas of mice of a milkfactor strain. Porter
MMTV is a vertically transmitted endogenous retrovirus that causes cancer when it inserts near an oncogene. Vertical transmission of murine breast cancer by adoptive nursing was demonstrated in 1936 by Dr. John Joseph Bittner. It was formerly classified as a simple retrovirus, but transcribes a regulatory protein similar to HIV, so is the first complex murine retrovirus identified. MMTV codes for a superantigen that stimulates T lymphocytes which in turn stimulate B cell proliferation. At puberty the virus enters the mammary glands with migrating lymphocytes and infects proliferating epithelial cells. MMTV can be transferred exogenously or endogenously through the germ cell line; the later infection produces virus present in every cell of the body. Mice that acquire the infection this way have a higher incidence of tumors. In lymphocytes, it may cause a T cell leukemia. MMTV has an enhancer region in its U3 long terminal repeat that activates the virus in mammary cells. It is activated by estrogen and other glucocorticoids, including progesterone. It is especially responsive to the synthetic steroid Dexamethasone which has been used to induce lactation in the dairy animals. And a few new MMTV papers.

Gamma retroviruses are used as the backbone for gene vector therapy. It is known that retrovirus-mediated gene therapy of SCID-X1 can lead to leukemia and lymphoma because proto-oncogenes can be activated as a consequence of vector integration. Gammaretroviral vectors preferentially integrate near transcriptional start sites and CpG islands.

Another place for it to have happened or to be happening, as demonstrated by the Paprotka CROI presentation, is in the creation of human to mouse xenografts. It turns out that by transplanting human tumors into mice and passing the tissue through subsequent generations, it becomes possible to establish tumor cell lines that couldn’t be established before. Also xenografts are used to study tumors, e.g. specific tumor immunogenicity and response to treatments. Why the presumption that the recombination that occurred in the Paprotka experiment was a unique event? They were fiddling with mouse viruses in the lab in the 1930s. The first outbreak of Epidemic Neuromyasthenia was in LA in 1934 and involved hospital staff. And suddenly the CDC is worried about lab workers and testing archived specimens. Will they find it? It would be funny if it weren’t so incredibly sad.

Take a look at this fascinating paper that covers a lot of material including the problems with xenotransplantation:
The discovery of endogenous retroviruses. Weiss

Are we to believe this recombination event occurred only once and that a pathogenic MLV-related human retrovirus is only produced by one particular cell line? Told to us by some of the very scientists that said it was impossible? Anyone smell a cover-up? Much easier to destroy a seminal work than admit that there may in fact be a family of XMRVs. Careful reading of the Science paper shows that the monoclonal antibody used to detect XMRV envelope in Lombardi et al detects all known xenotropic, polytropic and ecotropic MLVs. Antibodies made by patients recognized specific envelope and gag proteins. PCRs were optimized for sensitivity, not specificity. And quite possibly there are many other recombinant animal retroviruses infecting humans as well, created in laboratories and injected into almost everybody in the industrialized world, because of arrogance.

Putting it all together, it seems quite plausible that batches of vaccines containing retroviruses that are infectious to humans have been going out for over half a century. Much of what I’ve written here has been known but ignored for a long time. The assumption was made that endogenous animal retroviruses couldn’t harm people. It’s becoming clear that this was a very incorrect assumption.

So is there motivation for the cover-up and baseless attacks against Dr. Mikovits? They cannot attack the data because it is impeccable. Coffin and Stoye wrote the commentary in Science. Have they retracted it? Coffin said at the CFSAC in October 2009 that “This is as good as it gets…”. If this were HIV/AIDS, the year would be 1983. We have much still to learn about human MLV-related viruses. Is it even remotely possible that the findings reported in Lombardi et al were the result of contamination of their reagents? No more likely than that the retrovirus described by DeFrietas et al in 1991 was contamination. Had the CDC done something then, we could have prevented the autism epidemic and a second generation of infected people. Instead they buried DeFrietas’ work by withdrawing all funding. Deja vu?

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96 thoughts on “Cover-up and contamination theories

  1. >Yes the CDC and UK MRC have a whole lot to be worried about.

    The secret that they know about is out of the bag, thanks to he WPI.

    The levels of deception that the authorities have stooped to in the last 30 years is disgusting.

    The secrets they kept at our expense is a human rights abuse scandal beyong compare.

    A slow global genocide, caused by an accident and decades of subsequent cover-ups.

    Thank you for having the courage to step out with this post.

    cheers fly

  2. >"Why the presumption that the recombination that occurred in the Paprotka experiment was a unique event? They were fiddling with mouse viruses in the lab in the 1930s. The first outbreak of Epidemic Neuromyasthenia was in LA in 1934 and involved hospital staff."

    Yup. This is what I've been thinking, too.

  3. >i don't want an apology. i want a treatment that gives my health and life back…..and reparations.

    then and only then we'll have to have truth and reconciliation trials like they do/did in S. Africa and Rwanda if we are ever to trust our Govt's health system and officials again.

    thanks for the article Jamie. thanks to Judy and all the WPI crew for caring to uncover the real truth : )

  4. >They cannot attack the data, so they are attacking those who present the data. Thank you for explaining this, Dr. Deckoff-Jones. Dr. Mikovits has a sterling reputation as a scientist and I have been wondering why she has been attacked so viciously since the SCIENCE paper. Now I know. But these questionable tactics will only work for a limited time, and I think that time is now coming to an end. The truth is coming out, and I am encouraged.

    Patricia Carter
    XMRV+, 24 years M.E.

  5. >What do we do about it? This isn't 1983. We have the internet and we're watching them. What positive steps can we take now to make sure this doesn't get buried?
    After the 2009 paper was released, all I heard was that we needed a replication study. Is that still the case? If so, isn't that where we should ALL be focusing our attention? Or is it a lawsuit? What constructive steps can we take to move things forward? I understand the need for the petitions and the calling people out for whatever they've done to the detriment of our community, but it doesn't feel like it's getting anything positive done. What really needs to happen now? How do we make sure XMRV doesn't just disappear? If it's still a true replication study, how do we go about getting that done?
    I'm XRMV+ and I don't want to disappear.

  6. >Thank you Dr. D-J!! I only understood a little bit, but could tell it was great!

  7. >Apology is recognition of wrongdoing. I agree that treatment and getting us back on our feet is what we need.

    My comment was ironic as governments usually acknowledge wrongdoings decades, of half centuries after the harm is done.

  8. >Try telling the folks who got sick in Punta Gorda, Fla. in the 1950s, those who are still alive, that this virus was created in a lab in the 1990s. I found that to be a moment of unintended high comedy at CROI.

    The CDC's nefarious past is about to catch up with the CDC's nefarious present.

  9. >The 4 members of my family with ME and my 2 members with Autism thank you. The rise in Autism and ME parrallel each other and many abnormalities are shared. Not to mention the high amount of ME patients with autistic children. Something is going on and it seems to be passed down.

  10. >Thank you as always, Jamie.

    Are we going to be tested for CAV and other retroviruses also?

    I am looking forward to the epidemiology. Not just geographically, but chronologically (plenty of repositories — we have to preserve that evidence against destruction) and for all diseases.

    Are we doing everything we can do to support WPI? What else can we do? There must be more we can do.


  11. >what liz and katie said!(if anyone thinks this cant possibly be a cover-up (cant possibly be the case)…remember our Government and the "Tuskeegee Experiment"!. In 1972 (after 40 years!)when this abominable study was brought to int'l attention by a whistleblower…the "ETHICS" of the study was defended, stating "The mens status did NOT WARRANT ethical debate…they were "subjects", not patients…"clinical material" – not sick people". (sorry to sound jaded…but when have ME/cfs folks been regarded by the cdc, for example, as "sick patients"? warranting ethical treatment as well…and too bad the Office of Human Research Protection (OHRP) is housed within the HHS)

  12. >Thank you Jamie.

    It was a predictable mess (I could use more expressive terms here) they have created.

    I'm sat here utterly amazed at what people will do even when they themselves can be infected with this retrovirus. This cannot be allowed to be buried any longer. Lives are at stake, and I have had enough of those who pretend this is not the case. We will not be silenced!


  13. >If this is the case, what about Charles Darwin, Flo Nightengale and Marie Curie with supposed symptoms dating back to 1869?

    Cover-up. I plead the fifth.

    Action the Government will take for research, diagnosing and treating those infected? NONE. They've been at this since 1934; even paid those infected at The Los Angeles Hospital Outbreak 6 million dollars.

    What will patients do? They will protest through grass roots advocacy.

    What needs to be done to win this Fight:
    1) Grass Roots Advocacy
    2)social media tools with advanced strategy
    3) omn the streets campaigning
    4) legisltaion
    5) ballott measures
    6) political lobbying.

    We have the historical and scientific strength to achieve a win. The time is now ripe. With an estimated 4 million infected (possibly higher @ 6%+ of the population), we have the mass in numbers for an effective win.

    This is not Science. This is Politics. Politics trumphs science.

  14. >SO maybe this sheds a little new light on this?

    “Agency heads are scared to death of how the patient population will react if XMRV works out.” – Suzanne Vernon, September 11th, Lobby of the Salt Lake City Downtown Hilton – During a break at the 2010 OFFER Utah Patient Education Conference

  15. >What synchronicity. Over the last few days, I've been digging into the same stuff. Check out this report from the Vaccines Advisory Committee from 1998 – Dr. Arifa Khan – Update on reverse transcriptase activity in chicken cell derived vaccines, which starts at the bottom of page 13.

    "And after confirmation that there was a reverse transcriptase activity present in all chicken cell derived vaccines, the important question, of course, was whether this RT activity was associated with a retroviral particle; and, more importantly, whether this retrovirus particle could infect and replicate in human cells, and therefore be of public health concern…"

    "And interestingly, I’ve indicated in the last bullet that, about 20 years ago, similar RT activity was reported using the traditional assays available at that time which was produced from CF cultures and that was particle associated and replication defective for chicken cells that were tested at that time.

    These studies, as well as other information, were reviewed by the WHO early this year and they, as well as the FDA, continued use — recommended continued use of the vaccines made in chicken cells, and this report is published in July of ’98."

  16. >The Patient population is minimal. How many XMRV tests have been done to date. 2,000? 3,000? This is going to take decades to get those infected tested.

    I think Suzannes comment was a reflection of her own fear. This is Viral. There is no CFS. Therefore, there will not be a CFIDS organization. She sees the handwriting on the wall.

    This is just my opinion. I smell fear with this gal…..

  17. >Oh, and lets not forget that laboratory safety was largely ignored early on. Here's a shocking quote from a 1953 paper:

    "IT has become almost axiomatic that laboratory workers engaged in extensive studies of a given virus or rickettsia sooner or later become infected with that agent provided it is highly pathogenic for man. In some laboratories this situation has led to the assumption that the individual may as well undergo his infection at an early date and then continue the work as an immune person. I have never agreed with this philosophy since in most instances infection can be avoided."

  18. >Thanks for this very plausible explanation Jamie.

    I believe that the discovery of XMRV was (and still is) the most significant scientific discovery of the 21st century. Nothing that has occurred post the original Science paper has changed my belief about that.

    If the importance of this discovery were acknowledged and the science allowed to progress, I think we would suddenly find that we have a cure for many of the common cancers and other unexplained illnesses that plague the modern world. We are on the brink of understanding so very much here. Unfortunately, we are living the legacy of "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome". Such is the importance of the name attached to an illness in creating perception. What a tragedy.

  19. >In Dr. McClure's press response when she said the future of XMRV research is up to U.S./NIH. she mentioned doctors used to think SV40 was a big deal but it had proved harmless. I wondered why bring up something not obviously related nor entirely accurate.

    Found to contaminate rhesus kidneys, SV40 became an animal lab carcinogen-of-choice. It could endure formaldehyde inactivation and multiple passages, and was shown early to induce over-proliferation of human cells in the lab and antibodies in vivo via respiration. The alarm of many in science and government about disease in man was offset by momentum, ego, politics, and evidence at the time: by and large, no obvious effects were seen in the millions vaccinated on both sides of the iron curtain, or in limited epidemiology studies that followed. However, Drs. Carbone and Butel, Dana Farber, and others would link SV40 with mesothelioma, and ultimately the direct cause of death of a 2-year old boy from brain cancer. The judge threw that case out; the vaccine maker claimed innocence because detection technique required by the government didn't allow it to detect the contaminant. (Virus and the Vaccine – awesome read.)

    The powers that be have had decades of practice. Thank you, Dr. D-J, for a very bold article.

  20. >"And how do you manage to contaminate the patients' samples at a higher rate than the controls when all samples were blinded and run at the same time? "

    This is like the pink elephant in the room that no one is addressing. I'd find it hysterical if there weren't so many biases and egos getting in the way of answering that very question. And I'm not even a big proponent of XMRV being the cause of CFS. But really… that's not difficult to come up with. If we can, why not the researchers?

  21. >With the CDC having an unlimited budget, it is hard to believe it was an accident. I don't believe Scientists have "accidents" like this, especially when they have been notified time and time again by the likes of Defreitas, Dr Bell Cheney, parents of vaccinated kids. The CDC hs been notified for YEARS. They developed a very elaborate web of manipulation and deception in response. Even if it were an accident aloowed to go unnoticed, they should have caught it and corrected it instead of disabiling millions continually since. Some very sick people pulling the strings in the US and UK.

  22. >The book "The Virus and the Vaccine: Contaminated Vaccine, Deadly Cancers, and Government Neglect" details a play-by-play of how the SV40 contamination in polio vaccines was systematically disappeared using the same techniques being employed now. The powers-that-be will go to any lengths to protect vaccines, to the extent that they failed to recall contaminated polio vaccines because they were concerned that it would (rightfully) affect public confidence. This CYA mentality and lack of accountability has spawned multiple pandemics: when will it end?

  23. >Dr DJ, thanks so much for this article. I have known in my gut for some time, this was a virus found in the lab, and injected into first us as parents, and now our children. I am positive, have CFS/ME and have two autistic children. They are also positive. We are also positive for SV40. My mindset was already there. I already knew vaccines are contaminated. Oh, and less I forget, we have mycoplasma F, which is also a contaminant. Now, where do I go to get some remedy for this, because frankly, I can be pissed forever, but I need answers for healing NOW. We have done lyme protocols for lyme too, oh, we have that lovely one on board as well. Talk about a trainwreck in one family! Almost lost my son last year, and has a pacemaker in his chest, infections ravaging his body. He also has seizures. We do Abx's, we do antivirals, we do immune modulations, we do anti brain inflammation things, help us Dr DJ! Help us now!

  24. >Hillary Johnson said:

    "Try telling the folks who got sick in Punta Gorda, Fla. in the 1950s, those who are still alive, that this virus was created in a lab in the 1990s."

    Do you mean the folks from Punta Gorda, who were interviewed for the documentary "I Remember Me"? If so, then the more thing to do would be to ask them how they recovered.

    Because if you view the documentary, you'll see that those who were interviewed had completely recovered.

    Oh, but that's right, no one with "real" CFS recovers do they? Even those from documented outbreaks?

    The major flaw of that documentary is that these women were never asked how they got well.

    But they did.

  25. >This researcher described finding animal viruses and “brain-eating” amoeba in vaccines and explains why s/he chose to remain anonymous in the interview:

    Retired Vaccine Researcher Speaks Out:

    “In the Rimavex measles vaccine, we found various chicken viruses. In polio vaccine, we found acanthamoeba, which is a so-called ‘brain-eating’ amoeba.”

    “Simian cytomegalovirus in polio vaccine. Simian foamy virus in the rotavirus vaccine. Bird-cancer viruses in the MMR vaccine. Various micro-organisms in the anthrax vaccine. I’ve found potentially dangerous enzyme inhibitors in several vaccines. Duck, dog, and rabbit viruses in the rubella vaccine. Avian leucosis virus in the flu vaccine. Pestivirus in the MMR vaccine.”


    QUOTE – "The revelation that Americans infected Guatemalans with syphilis is a terrible reminder of experiments on blacks, prisoners and the mentally ill, and Obama is demanding action"

    QUOTE – "When the President was briefed on the Guatemalan episode, one of his first questions was whether this sort of thing could happen today," said Rick Weiss, a spokesman for the White House."


  27. >As others have said, we need to account for those who became ill long before mass vaccination programmes. For example, it's likely my grandmother had this illness – she became ill in the 1920s, and was mostly bedridden for the last 40 years of her life.

    My mother also suffered from it, and now me.

    Whatever has happened, we need to account for The large amount of evidence for vertical transmission through the female line (as well as spontaneous cases).


  28. >Dr. DJ – thanks so much for posting this. This is something I have suspected and have been trying to piece together for some time now. Apparently, I'm not the only one wondering about this.

    I think it's remarkable that Miyazawa would mention ME/CFS and XMRV in both of his studies, when technically they're about animal retroviruses in animal vaccines. This is the best research to me.

    Julia Rachel, I would love to know the source for this: "They've been at this since 1934; even paid those infected at The Los Angeles Hospital Outbreak 6 million dollars."

    Any yes, how did the Punta Gorda ladies recover?

  29. >Thank you for bringing into focus what I've been looking at (and struggling to actually *see*), in various places over the years.

    I am convinced, and have been for some time, that any efforts to "educate" the CDC or any other institution supposedly devoted to "public health" is completely useless as they already know the whole story – there's little to nothing we can tell them that they haven't known for years and years, except variations on the end stages of the various diseases promulgated by their practices a la Tuskeegee and now others as noted in the news in the last week or so. The Science paper dotted the i's and crossed the t's, and helpfully rounded out an already existing body of information.

    I feel like a lab rat screaming in its cage – dispassionately observed, data noted, lights out.

    My friend and I call the CDC the "Criminal Doctor's Cartel". More apropos every single day. This is Nazi concentration camp medicine with 60+ years to broaden and deepen the database.

    Kita, 30+ years, XMRV+

  30. >Dear Jamie, thank you very much for putting all the pieces together, but what's more important to talk honestly and open about it. I admire your courage.

    I sincerelly hope that the truth will come out some day, because I wish my children the best (health)care they deserve.


  31. >I'd like to say something about "recoveries".
    Everyone in my cohort was plunged into a perpetual battle for whatever scraps of health they could obtain by ANY means.

    There are vast differences in the various levels of improvement, but NOBODY was immune from daily engagement with this constant struggle,
    and "Not one" ever fully recovered.

  32. >Caledonia wrote: "And yes, how did the little ladies of Punta Gorda recover?"

    My comment: Maybe they didn't "totally" recover. Maybe they just learned to live within their "bubble" (as my doctor would say).
    Remember, Dr. Bell recently contacted some of his former CFS patients who thought they had recovered this disease, but when tested for XMRV, they proved to be positive.

  33. >Thanks Jamie!

    Like many, I've been investigating and discovered a lot, especially in the last 24 hours. This is not going to be buried…

    Among the many history documents I found, I came across a more recent one tonight/this morning:

    Biologicals. 2010 May;38(3):371-6. Epub 2010 Apr 8.
    Endogenous retroviruses as potential hazards for vaccines.

    Miyazawa T.

    Laboratory of Signal Transduction, Department of Cell Biology, Institute for Virus Research, Kyoto University, 53 Shogoin-Kawaracho, Sakyo-ku, Kyoto 606-8507, Japan.


    Retroviruses are classified as exogenous or endogenous according to their mode of transmission. Generally, endogenous retroviruses (ERVs) are not pathogenic in their original hosts; however, some ERVs induce diseases. In humans, a novel gammaretrovirus was discovered in patients with prostate cancer or chronic fatigue syndrome. This virus was closely related to xenotropic murine leukemia virus (X-MLV) and designated as xenotropic murine leukemia virus-related virus (XMRV). The origin and transmission route of XMRV are still unknown at present; however, XMRV may be derived from ERVs of rodents because X-MLVs are ERVs of inbred and wild mice. Many live attenuated vaccines for animals are manufactured by using cell lines from animals, which are known to produce infectious ERVs; however, the risks of infection by ERVs from xenospecies through vaccination have been ignored. This brief review gives an overview of ERVs in cats, the potential risks of ERV infection by vaccination, the biological characteristics of RD-114 virus (a feline ERV), which possibly contaminates vaccines for companion animals, and the methods for detection of infectious RD-114 virus.

    2010 The International Association for Biologicals. Published by Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.
    PMID: 20378372 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

    Notice the reference to ERVs and vaccines? Recombinant Retroviruses… who knew?

    It's not just vaccines either… this is huge.

    Thanks again ~ JT

  34. >Thank you Jamie for starting to put the pieces together. I don't doubt that vaccines may play a role in my and may family illnesses. Born in 1961, I think I got both the Salk and Sabin vaccines and could be at the tail end of the SV40 contamination. (never been tested)

    The months preceding my slow decline, I had a car accident, given a tetnus shot, then while going through PT, got a knock down drag out flu and was never the same. Don't know that the tetnus shot is relavant, but I believe my childhood vaccines may be.

    I also believe that our pets are at risk. Which is why I find the papers by Mayazawa so interesting. I had a 5yr old beautiful healthy belgian sheepdog who got a vaccination, and suddenly died 2 weeks later. Cornell could NOT find a cause of death.

    Thank you for bring up this discussion in your blog.

    Let's get researching and advocating!

    Karen Ravitz

  35. >If XMRV did come from vaccines, does that mean most people caught it from a vaccine, or does that mean that once a few people caught it from a vaccine, it was then able to spread person to person?

  36. >From what I understand, parts of a virus or viruses could be in a vaccine or other biological (made from cell lines containing parts of viruses).

    A live (RCR) reproductive competent retrovirus could be the result of a recombination of viruses from a vaccine or biological and its host (people) or it may have occurred at some point earlier and was transmitted to others.

    Vaccines are not the only products that can cause problems but they may be the most commonly used.

  37. >I could be wrong about this, but I think the reason why the XMRV recombination researchers don't think that XMRV was created before 1993-1996 is that they tested samples from the tumor and/or cell line which were taken at multiple time points from the cell line's genesis and they didn't see any XMRV so their conclusion was that the XMRV in the tumor/cell line didn't come from the person the tumor/cell line was derived from.

    However after the tumor/cell line was passed through several different strains of nude mice the researchers found that all of the sudden it had the same XMRV as was described by Silverman, and they stated that for the same virus to recombine twice is a 'vanishingly small' chance, ie even if the two pre-XMRV's did recombine at an earlier time point such as the vaccine scenario you describe the resulting XMRV wouldn't be the exact same virus but rather would be different.

    It's like if a someone threw a bucketful of coins up in the air and they all fell down in exactly the same positions twice, at least from what I can tell. Yeah it's possible but it's like probably billions of times more probable that the virus happened in the way the researchers described.

  38. >For another potential example of how small the chance is of an identical recombinate to occur, it might be like a couple having twins occur in seperate fertilization instances. All the same genes and chromosomes are there so yeah it's possible, but don't hold your breath unless you've got more oxygen than probably exists in the entire Universe saved up, at least that's my uneducated take on the subject.

  39. >Another fantastic blog – cutting straight to the truth!! In the UK we have watched the Government tell parents that the MMR vaccine was not responsible for their childrens autism, when these parents KNEW that it was. The Government denied any connection, when the evidence was staring them in the face.
    The same with M.E. Denial and diversionary tactics are being used in the UK to put 'Joe Public' off the scent of what will be one of the most important medical findings of our time.
    People with M.E. are suffering in despicable circumstances in this country. Autism is increasing at an astonishing pace and the Government is wondering 'why?'.
    This is WHY. I don't pretend to understand exactly how XMRV came to be and I don't really care. It is HERE and it has infected me and caused autism in my son and NO ONE is going to convince me that this is not the case. I have my own evidence in front of me every day.
    I also have a friend with M.E. who also has a son who shows some autisitic tendencies. This is EPIDEMIC in the UK.
    I will NEVER allow my children to be vaccinated again. Vaccination is such a common trigger for M.E. that I would be certifiably insane to allow it.
    It's time the US and UK Governments showed their cards on this one and STOPPED THE SUFFERING and THE SPREAD of this RETROVIRAL INFECTION.
    People out there know the truth. It's ringing loud and clear and it's being heard far and wide. XMRV is the way ahead – I am grateful every day for the WPI and I believe that they will save us all!!

  40. >I recently interviewed a woman who came down with ME/CFS during the Lake Tahoe outbreak in 1985. She was working as a teacher's aide in an elementary school nearby, and stated that her illness occurred about six months after getting a mandatory vaccine for Hepatitis B and (possibly) other diseases. She said that this vaccine was required of teachers at all the schools in the area.

    Might this be part of why the teachers at Truckee High School were hit so hard during the epidemic? Truckee HS also was a very moldy building at that time, putting stress on the immune systems of people who attended and worked there. A mandatory vaccine for teachers seems to have the potential for explaining why they were so hard hit, even compared to the students in the same building.

    Perhaps someone might check on the history of vaccinations in the Tahoe area during that time period?


    Lisa Petrison

  41. >Simply amazing the fear mongering that this blog and posts spews forth.

    I am full time postdoctoral scientist working on XMRV (published) and HIV in reputable retrovirus lab and here are my comments which I'm sure will be vilified.

    What cover up? You mean to say that numerous labs in multiple countries and working on XMRV and actively pursing a cover up? And exactly what would be the motive of this world-wide cover up? Its amazing to me that this is even suggested considering that scientists working on medical research have no unethical reasons for a cover up.

    The reality is thus: There is one Science paper and one Plos pathogens paper with compelling data on the presence of a XMLV in their samples.

    THAT's IT.

    These articles do NOT say that XMRV causes CFS or prostate cancer and there are many theories to be tested before anyone can say this conclusively. For example, one theory could be that the immune system of CFS patients (well-documented) is altered in a way to allow more opportunistic infections. This may prove true considering all of the other viruses that are found in CFS patients.

    What people tend to forget, and what the author of this blog and the media exploit, is the science is a long process where one study showing a correlation is not enough. Many other studies must be done to prove what is true or not.

    In the case of XMRV, there have been far more studies showing the lack of evidence of XMRV in CFS despite the compelling evidence in the Mikovits paper. These two camps need to be reconciled and what is currently happening. The notion of a vast cover up is outrageous.

    Also, the fact that vaccines are attacked and suggested to be the source of XMLVs and other viruses is completely baseless. Unless someone shows a study of live XMRV in vaccine, it is completely anathema for a medical doctor to be posting her views is if it were fact. To quote disparate articles and draw radical conclusions from them is shameful, unethical, and smacks of narcissism.

    This blog does a real disservice to people actively researching XMRV (such as myself) and CFS in general. What if XMRV had nothing to do with CFS? Wouldn't one want more energy (money) spent on finding real causes to CFS/prostate cancer? This must be actively pursued.

    I'm closing out on this point:

    CFS is a horrible disease that leaves many people emotionally desperate – this much is clear.

    But what everyone here that has responded (despite having CFS or not) needs to be aware of is not to mix emotion with science. All of us in research try do is ethically uncover the truth, whether that means link or no link of XMRV with CFS.

    Unfortunately for the medical doctor who has wrote this blog, her emotions are clearly affecting her judgement.

  42. >It is a hypothesis. The facts that led to the hypothesis are referenced. Do you have a problem with any of the science? Would you like to tell us who you are?

    Jamie Deckoff-Jones

  43. >No Dr. Deckoff-Jones, I'm not going divulge my identity since I will be undoubtedly contacted numerous times as I have been in the past. I have much work to do on XMRV and HIV and the emotion tends to get in the way of discovering the truth.

    Yes it is a hypothesis.

    However, what the lay-public doesn't realize and what the scientific community (who reads your blog) does realize it is a far-reaching hypothesis that those cited papers DO NOT prove.

    What upsets me and the rest of research community is that you use the emotions (including your own) of people with this horrible disease for your personal views.

    I applaud your freedom of speech and you have every right to do so, but to manipulate people's emotions on this subject is quite unethical.

  44. >I agree. Not proof. A hypothesis that critically needs to be investigated. It is a public health emergency. Patients "know" they have been harmed by vaccines, but the scientific community chooses not to listen. I am manipulating no one. How is stating my observations and opinions a manipulation? Patients are not children to be manipulated. I am letting people know that they are not alone, even though they have been abandoned by the scientific and medical communities for decades. This post has been read by thousands of people already, including a number of retrovirologists, but nobody has told me there are any errors in it as yet. As for expressing my outrage? Yes. I'm outraged that I can figure this out and nobody is working on it at the highest levels of government science. I am a doctor, not a virologist, but it seems pretty obvious we have a serious problem. It needs to be a priority. CFS is little. The tip of the iceberg.

  45. >I would like to mention to the anonymous researcher that CROI was a big circus for XMRV. Please watch the broadcast. J.Stoye predicts that there will be less and less interest for XMRV association with disease. But later on mentions it's very infectious, and lab workers should get tested. Key researchers, like Alter, Lo, wMikovits and Ruscetti were not invited nor their abstracts have been accepted, though these people published in the most prestigious papers in the world. What gives?
    This conference was for contamination theorists.

    patients with ME are every I'll like you said, and since we do not have a specialty like all the other disease (rheumatology, infectious disease, etc) we have no one to turn to, and mostly doctors ignore our symptoms and refuse to even do testing (CDC says not to test us).

    This is a huge problem, and patients have had enough. Suggest you revisit the AIDS epidemics in the early years and read Osler's Web.


  46. >Amazing.

    "Patients "know" they have been harmed by vaccines, but the scientific community chooses not to listen."

    Patients feel they have been harmed by vaccines because the media skews defunct and forged data from one vaccine paper (Lancet). Have you Pubmed'ed vaccines and purposely ignored all of the other data proving no link between vaccines and other diseases (i.e. autism)?

    "This post has been read by thousands of people already, including a number of retrovirologists, but nobody has told me there are any errors in it as yet."

    Never said there were errors. What I'm saying is your conclusions from these papers are far-reaching.

    "Yes. I'm outraged that I can figure this out and nobody is working on it at the highest levels of government science."

    Hate to tell you this, but not all of the best science comes out of government science. As a matter of fact, the amount of research being poured into XMRV is astounding from the view of academia and the scientific community given the fact that XMRV is relatively novel.

    What is horrible is that people think not enough research on XMRV is being done. After going to several conferences on XMRV, the reality is quite the opposite.

    " I am a doctor, not a virologist, but it seems pretty obvious we have a serious problem."

    Exactly. You are not a virologist. You are a doctor. You are extremely biased because you see only patients that are suffering. You don't realize is that there are plenty of virologists that deeply care about this problem (including myself) and are working on it with out the specter of a "cover up". Ridiculous.

    What I do agree with is more research needs to be done on CFS in general, even outside of the still-debated XMRV link.

    What I do not agree with is you using the emotions of your patients to stoke further fear and anger when so much is already being done on XMRV.

    It's pretty clear my voice is not getting through to you. This will be my last post to your blog – I have experiments to run.

    Hopefully I have reached some of your listeners and to show them that good scientific research does not involve the emotion that you spew forth.

    It involves many well-controlled studies that proves or disproves a theory. That is what XMRV and CFS is right now – a theory. Rest-assured to CFS patients that active research is underway, even at the highest level of government (NIH).

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